Showing posts with label Church of Scotland. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Church of Scotland. Show all posts

Saturday, May 23, 2009

Scott Rennie Calling Upheld By General Assembly

Today has been an busy and varied day for me starting from a train full of Leinster fans, doing some European election campaigning to turning up to campaign in favour of Scott Rennie outside the general assembly.

I have just returned home to see that the General Assembly have voted 326 votes to 267 to uphold the appointment of Scott Rennie as the new minister of Queen's Cross Congregation Aberdeen. Earlier today there were two protests outside the Assembly building in Edinburgh one which it looks like Westboro Baptist Church didn't appear to turn up at had a max of 20 protesters when Zion Baptist church turned up. (the max when we were there pictured behind the barriers.

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The other organised my Liberal Youth Scotland* (LYS) which other groups joined unto had over 100 people turning up for and more dog collars and possibly more Christians, some of us gay, supporting. This on six days notice was quite an acheivement.


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Scott himself came along to say thank you to those of us supporting him. Ruaraidh Dobson President of LYS did a magnificent job in dealing with the press. Scott called in a statement read out on his behalf by Brian Kerr is the the "Kirk should continue to journey together" following this decision.

Personally this gay, Presbyterian Church of Ireland raised, Christian, son and grandson of a three kirk elders, former missionary, friend of Scott is glad that the vote of the Kirk in Aberdeen, and the ratification of the Presbytery has been upheld. Though I guess this may not despite Scott's pleas be the end of things. But a vote has been made as far as the Church of Scotland is concerned.

*Though there were a number of Liberal Democrats who cannot be called youth, but maybe youthful in the ranks (including myself).

Wednesday, May 13, 2009

Apparently I'm a Nazi

I'm quite used to Neil Craig using that word about me and my Lib Dem colleagues, but apparently from a pulpit at Kirkmuirhill Kirk in Lanark I was branded one on Sunday. Rev Ian Watson used his sermon to combine those who support Scott Rennie with the power behind the Third Reich. He said:

"[Hitler] guessed correctly that the French had no stomach for a fight. If
only they had, then the tragedy of a Second World War might have been
avoided.

"To claim that the homosexual lifestyle is worthy of a child of God; to
demand that a same-sex partnership be recognised as on a footing with marriage;
to commend such a lifestyle to others is to deny that Jesus Christ is our only
Sovereign and Lord. It is to turn the grace of God into a licence for
immorality.

"Such people will not inherit the kingdom of God (1Cor.6:10)*. And
therefore they must be resisted . . . Let me assure you, neither I nor
like-minded minsters enjoy conflict . . . But have we learned nothing from
history?

"Remember Hitler and the retaking of the Rhineland. He got away with
it. No one stopped him. So next it was Austria, then Czechoslovakia, and then
Poland and only then world war."

Now from my 20th Century History it was those that were deemed unworthy of being part of the Aryan race that the Nazis sought to cast out of eye shot, persecute, hide away, ignore and eventually try an extinguish. If Rev Watson is going to cite history let him not forget that the Jews, disabled and homosexuals were three major groups that were deemed unworthy of being children of God, and look were that got the World.

The comparison between the two can therefore hardly have been more poorly drawn.

*Possibly a misprint as verse 10 refers to the thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers. Which though equally topical is a whole other debate. Although in verse 9 why Paul did not use the word paiderasste (the popular word in texts at the time to cover homosexual practise) but rather arsenokoitai which is the stem man (arsen) and beds (kotai) is an interesting debate. Coming as it does in a list after male prostitutes may relate to the Temple male prostitutes who lay on beds in Temple precincts in the first century.

Monday, May 11, 2009

Petition in Support of Scott Rennie

I've just stumbled across a petition in Support of Scott Rennie it is in it's embryotic stages. So please sign and encourage your firneds to sign.

Dave Thompson A Question

Dave Thompson the SNP list MSP for the Highlands and Islands region has made his position clear on the Scott Rennie position says in the Sunday Herald:

"I have no problem with people who have different beliefs or a different lifestyle.


"I do believe, however, that once someone declares himself as a Christian that they should comply with the teaching of the Bible and that active homosexuality is incompatible with that teaching."


As Bernard Salmon points out on his blog:

"Well, if we're talking about textual purity, I'm interested to see how Mr Thompson squares his beliefs with the following passage from the SNP's Holyrood manifesto in 2007: "the SNP will not promote or support legislation or policies which discriminate on the grounds of race, disability, age, gender, faith or religion, social background or sexual orientation."

"Some might say that once someone declares himself as a Nationalist MSP, he should comply with the provisions of the manifesto and that active bigotry is incompatible with that manifesto. Or is this yet another part of their manifesto that's not meant
to be taken seriously?"


I couldn't have put it better myself, hoisted by his own petard is Mr Thompson.

Of course Mr. Thompson would be aware that nobody really declares themselve a Christian, that declaration comes from God upon the confession of sin from an indivudual; if I were to be really pedantic. Now of course when that declaration as in my case comes at the age of 10 before I was sexually aware let alone active the problem comes when I find out just what my sexual preference is after that point. Put if I'm keeping to teaching of the bible I'll be heading down to the slave market tomorrow so I can be a good master. I'd also say the moderator elected at the 2007 General Assembly the Very Rev. Dr. Sheilagh Kesting should have covered her head in church and not been allowed to speak in let alone lead the church. Of course if I did so Mr Thompson would probably accuse me of being selective in which parts of the bible are still applicable today.

Thursday, May 07, 2009

Why I Need to Still Go To Church

Featured on Liberal Democrat Voice
Yesterday I was reminiscing about myself on the day after the last Westminster General Election. Well with news coverage over recent days I've also been reminiscing about a different day from 2005, the day of my Parliamentary Candidates Development Day.



Looking at that group of four potential approved candidates now they included the PPC for the target West Coast seat Katy Gordon PPC for Glasgow North, the 'go to' Lib Dem blogger for many in the MacBloggosphere in myself and the minister of the moment Rev Scott Rennie. The group of four on that day was a group not backward in coming forward, some would think quite a feisty bunch, but the least 'feisty' of the lot would probably have been Scott.*



Basically a eruption of criticism has blown up about Scott's sexuality which has been known publicly for some years because he has been called democratically, and that decision upheld democratically, to a new charge, Queen's Cross Church, in Aberdeen. Let's get the democracy of the decision clear Presbyterians require a 2/3rds majority of the communicant voting members of a church to call a new minister to become their pastor; Scott comfortably acquired 86%. The Aberdeenshire Presbytary which is the group of all Ministers in that area then ratified that decision in January by 60 votes to 24. In both cases to have such levels of support any politician would be happy. So why is the issue still up in the air and unclear?



I know that Caron, Lallands Peat Warrior and MacNumpty have all written excellent pieces from different standpoints and I recommend once you get to the end of this piece to go and read them all. But I feel able to add a little something different to the story because apart from that day I share a lot in common with Scott.



Like him I was raised in what was at the time a conservative Presbyterian Church, indeed my father was an Elder and Boys Brigade Captain. Like him after coming to my own faith and being settled in it I had to come to terms with my own sexuality. Like him I also had major struggles coming to terms with that while in a very active role of serving God, him during his pastoral role in Brechin me during my stint as a missionary. However, unlike Scott my victory in personally finally overcoming that struggle hasn't led afterwards to such media glare when I later moved to a different job in the same 'industry'.


Caron in her post pointed out that Scott said that gay Christians could feel isolated from both communities -sometimes the Church couldn't handle people being gay, but also some elements of the gay community couldn't handle Christianity. This is not only true of the community but often of the inned struggle within the Christian themself. I know I struggled with that issue myself from my mid teens through to my late 20s over a decade, so I don't expect the Church to totally come to terms with things overnight. Although they have had 2000 or so years to get to grips with these issues. Caron mentioned her friends in the Christian Union at University changing her attitudes because of their attitudes to her gay friends. Of the over 6 years I spent on committees in my first three years of University it was the CU I spent most time on committee, so you can imagine the struggle I was having.

All of these people saw a certain element of me. Each new committee had to write encouraging things they found about each other in a sort of Chinese whisper sheet, my were always very deeply thought out and far from twee or predictable and I hold a lot of their comments dear. But very few got to see or hear of the full struggle. Indeed I don't think I would have expressed it to them or other close Christian friends with quite this amount of candour back then. When I finally came out to my parents which I thought would be all the harder because of all the Christian faith and experience between the three of us I was dreading the day. In the end the words passed my lip in a matter of fact sort of way and after one maybe two questions there was acceptance, love and understanding in just the Christian way that Jesus himself would I'm certain have shown.

Those Christians who believe in predestination believe that our paths are mapped out by God before we are even born: whether we become a Christian and how we will live are predetermined. These people are possibly some of the most literal believers of the bible and most homophobic element of the church. Yet by their very adherence to that stance they are found wanting on the issue of gay Christians. They cannot judge on someone's personal confession and salvation through grace. Indeed the fact that it is grace by which we are saved is a whole other theological ball game.

On the other hand you have those who believe our salvation is through free will. Good sound liberal bunch. Yet even they acknowledge that someone cannot chose their sexuality. One of the churches I worked with employed an open gay, though celibate, man. Others have youth leaders who have had sex before marriage, elders who have cheated on their wives etc. One thing does hold dear, all Christians should be accepted as an sinner saved by grace. And who are we to judge which Levitican abomination is allowed to be done away with over another.

Pass me the prawn cocktail in your polyester/cotton Sunday best over your cotton and lycra underwear even if you and your wife haven't maintained your proscribed time apart sexually following her period and let Scott Rennie, his partner David, his ex-wife and daughter get on with their life.

Don't be Pharisees when it comes to ranking the laws as you see fit.

The only way for gay Christians to gain acceptance in the Church is to keep turning up and in the gay community to not deny our faith. Let's get one thing clear Scott Rennie is an excellent Pastor the people of Queen's Cross congregation don't care about anything much beyond that, just like his church in Brechin before that. People like him show that Christ accepts us as we are, time for the Church to be a little more Christ like.

My dear friend Caron called her post on this subject "Why I no longer go to church" I hope I have put out at least part of the counterpoint from an insider's perspective.

Update: There is now a Facebook group in Support of Scott Rennie, please join it.

Update 2: I have just read the comments about this story on the Pink News article. Sadly it confirms the paradox that gay Christian's face. I've posted this response there.


It was very said reading some of the comments on here as a gay community we have fought for inclusion for so long. However, someone from our community who is different in this case a Christian, and a minister to boot, who has come to terms with that position and is 'proud' to be both is getting knocked back by some.


For Scott, like myself, it is a paradox that as a gay Christian we are often not accepted by the Church and also not accepted by the gay community. Those who are out as gay Christians have if my experience is anything to go on come through a lot of hard times not just from the respective communities but from ourselves.


If anyone in any other profession was in danger of being dismissed because of his sexuality we would all be united and up in arms standing with them. But even though he is one of us in an organistaion that in many ways needs to change its view of us we don't give the same support. The chruch needs changing on its views on sexuality the best way for that to be done is from the inside.

*For the record all four were approved, though the one who now is seen as a little bit of new media expert in certain fields in the Scottish Party was told he needed a little bit more media training. (Best not tell Clifton Terrace or Cowley Street I might lose some street cred and/or access)

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