Equal Marriage: Why I'm a Member of the Lib Dems not Stonewall

Stonewall have finally come out with a statement 'supporting' equal marriage:

"We seek to secure marriage for gay people as a civil vehicle on the same basis as heterosexual marriage, available in a registry office but without a mandate on religious organisations to celebrate it.

"We seek to retain civil partnerships for lesbian and gay people recognising their special and unique status."

But hang on, this is not what I or the Liberal Democrats are saying. Merely keeping is a civil vehicle ignores some of the LGBT community. People like me who are of faith and LGBT and want a church wedding, and certain religious groups The Quakers, some liberal Jewish synagogues etc want to carry out same-sex marriage in their faith, if we can but allow it.

Yes the Liberal Democrats also are not mandating every religious group to celebrate same-sex marriage. We called for allowing those "that wish to do so" to be allowed to. Five small words but a world of difference from what Stonewall are now saying. If they have consulted on this who have they consulted, clearly not widely. Clearly they are getting a statement out to appease some.

Also as you would expect from Stonewall they miss out the whole area of difficulties facing those people of transgender. Their existing relationships need to be allowed to carry on if they wish. Yet the failure to extend civil partnership to hetero-sexuals along side gay marriage and civil partnerships leads to an issue there. What if a partner in a same sex-couple undergoes gender reassignment, what happens to their marriage? Stonewall are not allowing them to have a civil partnership.

The Liberal Democrats have introduced a fully inclusive equal marriage policy, even allowing humanist celebrants in England and Wales to conduct weddings (as they can in Scotland), Stonewall are still failing to see the whole picture. Although this first step is to be welcomed there still is a lot of catching up still to be done to be where most of us are.

Ben Summerskill's Webb Ellis Moment

Image used with permission from
gyronny.com

Last week Ben Summerskill warned the LGB community (Stonewall doesn't do T) to beware of politicians playing political football with the issue of equal marriage.

Over the last week the tweets and comments have been coming thicker and faster from all political parties and those with none. There is uproar from a broad section of the LGBT community that hasn't been since 1969 and the original Stonewall riots. I think we have noticed that Ben Summerskill is like a poor confused pupil standing on the playing fields of Rugby unsure of what to make of William Webb Ellis's innovation. For those of you who don't know Webb Ellis was the pupil credited with picking up a football on the playing fields of Rugby and creating a whole new game which bears the school's name.

To me that is the ideal analogy of what has happened to Stonewall and Ben Summerskill over the last few months/years. Other groups and even the mainstream political parties have picked up the ball of equality and are running with it in hand. They are holding unto equality tightly, not controlling its passage with taps from their feet. For them equality is not just equalising LGB rights it is about inclusiveness of SLGBTQ* (Staight, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning) rights, something that while Stonewall say they stand for equality they seem unable to support.

The right of heterosexuals to have equal access to Civil Partnerships was part of the Lib Dem Policy passed last week. It was also part of the original CP legislation going through Parliament, which Stonewall say they were championing, yet now they (or is it just Ben) say they are not standing for heterosexual equality.

The policy also included Humanist celebrants in the right to marry or civil partner couples in England and Wales. Something that they had only been able to do in Scotland before. An equality of beliefs which Stonewall probably don't want to recognise or support.

The fact is that the equality that is left to fight for has to be fair to heterosexual, homosexuals, bisexuals and transgender people. That is the whole new ball game. It is the ironing out of the little things that were once thought separate is okay as long as we step along the right path. It's time to smooth those out, being equal need to be just that, equal opportunities for all.

If Summerskill can't see that maybe it is time for Team Stonewall to select a new captain. Or if Stonewall really cannot see them, maybe they should get out of the game. 86% of the recent PinkNews poll were in favour of equal marriage, 61% of the general public in a recent poll said the same.

It truly is time to work out how to do, not work out the issues for why 'society' can't.

* May even have to add AP to that for Asexual or Polyamorous.

Quote of the Day: Ben Summerskill Part Deux #MoreBS

Image used with permission from
gyronny.com

"Stonewall has never pretended to be a democratic member organisation. We have never said we speak for all lesbian, gay and bisexual people."

Ben Summerskill quoted in Pink News

Good because you aren't speaking for me, nor it seems journalist Johann Hari who at the LGBT Labour fringe event today said :

"We are not the government, we are making demands on the government."

Which is good except for the past 13 year LGBT Labour have been associated to the party of Government and haven't pushed them on this issue. Last week was the first time a party of government passed a UK-wide equal marriage policy. Sadly the Labour party this week only placed equal marriage 13th on the list of priorities for debate.

Summerskill is also scared that the bill would fail in the Lords, by "retreating to tradition", all the more reason for the reform of the House of Lords in the current Government's plans.

Summerskill also claimed in response to Hari's comment that disability groups wouldn't deliberate the cost of wheelchair ramps, that "It is perfectly proper to say there are arguments that will be used against us so we can counter them". That would the the £5bn figures that was initially Department of Work and Pensions, then the Home Office then Stonewalls own reckoning as both Government bodies denied this figure.

Read also: This post from Timothy J Moore who was at the LGBT Labour meeting, which suggests that Summerskill was reiterating comments that he made last week at the Delga (LGBT Lib Dems) fringe.

Stonewall Give the Facts, the Negative Facts Again #MoreBS

I turned to Mícheál this morning and said I was determined not to do any LGBT blog posts today. I felt that I'd done enough for the week and needed to get the balance of other issues correct on this blog. That was until Andrew, whose flat we're both currently staying in, retrieved his post.

There was a begging letter for Andrew to rejoin Stonewall and the following piece of literature.


In which they are quoting a 2008 opinion poll in the Observer. Here are the same figures as reported in the paper.
The article goes on to explain (and I have corrected the erroneous English.

Same sex marriage civil partnership has been legal in the UK since 2005 , but 45 per cent of Britons still feel that gay couples should not be allowed to get married civil partnered or married. When the same question was asked in 2002, 50 per cent held this view, but the introduction of the Civil Partnerships Act has only changed the views of five per cent of the population.

The argument that Ben Summerskill at least earlier this week was putting about was that this was a minority opinion. However, it would appear that even two years ago it was swinging into the majority opinion. Over the last two years there has been a lot of work by organisations, other than Stonewall, in getting the message across. As indeed this week the Liberal Democrats brought in a proposal that equalises marriage across numerous aspects than simply bringing in 'gay' marriage. Allowing humanists to perform marriage in England and Wales bringing equality with Scotland,

This year all three of the main party leaders have to some extent said they supported the idea of equal marriage. In fact at 4:30 this afternoon whoever is announced a Labour leader supports the idea of equal marriage. If we are campaigning for equality it is a matter that all groups are treated equally, LGBT groups should be interested in gaining equality with the rest of society, that includes extending civil partnerships to heterosexuals.

There is also the comment at the top that says 'Nothing Left to Fight For? You Decide' yet no option for comments.

It also says in begging section "*by donating £20 of more per month, you will become a Close Friend of Stonewall and receive additional benefits". Wonder if those special benefits include the right to gay marriage?

Read also Mícheál has done a similar post on the subject here. We promise not to twin all our blog posts even if we are wearing similar hues today.

Quote of the Day: Ben Summerskill

Earlier I saw a Tweet or two that mentioned that this month's Attitude had an article on gay equal marriage, including comment from Stonewall. They have this comment from, I'm sorry it is him again, Ben Summerskill.

"Anyone who's involved in campaigning [for equal marriage] should be very cautious about being seduced by politicians in any party who are looking for political advantage and have have different imperatives from gay people in the wider world."

Now I have a problem with that. I am a gay politician from the party that has just passed an equal marriage policy federally, after I was involved it getting it passed at Scottish level. Do I have be be cautious of seducing myself? I have been listening to the wider gay community, I even had a few thanks yous from various members of that community for the work I've already done on the issue.

Meanwhile, I'm reading from comments on PinkNews story of Summerskill's comments at Lib Dem conference is that Stonewall supporters etc are wondering just where is the consultation with their own 'members' a phrase that seems hard to pin down who it covers.

Update: The original PinkNews article was update and now contains the following disclaimer:

"Comments made during the 21st September have been suspended at the request of Stonewall. It is possible to post comments though on this amended version of the article.

PinkNews.co.uk is happy to publish the clarifications above and apologises for any confusion caused by the original report."

So Stonewall are trying to censor freedom of expression.

David Laws Doesn't Want to Return to Government

It really isn't my attempt to get at Stonewall again it is just a coincidence. When David Laws came out Ben Summerskill took to the air waves and print media saying that gay men who stayed in the closet didn't deserve the same degree of support and sympathy of an organisation such a Stonewall.

Reading the news today, while I was sitting waiting for Mícheál coming out of an appointment at the Royal Victoria Hospital, of David Law's latest statement I think it needs revisiting.

He says he has 'lost the hunger' and is 'unwilling to return to the Government' after the stress of being outed the way he was. There is even talk of him not seeking re-election for his seat in Yeovil at the next election depending on the outcome of a parliamentary investigation into the financial dealings which saw him worse off, but not declaring the relationship with his 'landlord'.

It is a sad case when someone is forcibly outed and loses their va-va voom as appears to be the case with one of the sharpest minds in the Lib Dem parliamentary team. It may be just a matter of time that David still needs to come to terms with his situation, I certainly hope it is, but I hope it is not the onset of some deeper malaise.

As I pointed out shortly at the time public opinion was that the UK didn't care about the sexuality of those leading the country. But it can be hard to have to come to terms with the sudden public knowledge of your sexuality. Most of us get the opportunity to come out to others in our own terms, in our own time. It is an ongoing process as each new contact has to be weighed up for how and when they are told.

To have that decision ripped out of you hands and over the front pages and TV screens must be a traumatic experience and one that takes some time to heal and get over. I'm not saying to David get out there and be proud of who you are right now. I'm sure if he had turned up at the Delga AGM or any of their fringe events* he would have been made to feel very welcome, but he chose to stay away from conference altogether. But I would say don't do anything too hasty. See advice from those of us who are out, gay, candidates or MPs about how we deal with it. Some of us keep it as something we don't talk about, some like me seem to very much at ease as talking about it as part of us, not the whole.

It would be a shame to lose David to politics altogether and I hope that he does reconsider the statement he has made. But I also know that the time has to be right for him.

* Or any part of conference for that matter.

Fisking the Stonewall Response To Ben's 'Comments' #MoreBS #LDConf

Cross posted at Liberal Democrats in Northern Ireland

A friend of mine following up on my comments about Ben Summerskill's comments at the Diversity fringe meeting on Monday sent an email to Stonewall. He received a response which linked to this press statement. He forwarded it to me and I think it requires Fisking.

Press Statement from Stonewall Fisking by Stephen Glenn

The story published by PinkNews today is, sadly, a largely dishonest account of what took place at last night's fringe meeting in Liverpool. I took my lead from friends' comments and blogs who were actually there. Multiple sources. Also MPs and a former London mayoral candidate commented on it during the debate yesterday on equal marriage.

We deeply regret that PinkNews chose to publish the story late at night without double-checking a single fact and without having troubled to attend either the meeting itself or a party conference at which such an important issue was being discussed. Zoe O'Connell was at the meeting and blogged not once but twice the second time to pick on some inaccuracies in what others were saying but not in the context or essence of what I posted or what PinkNews said.

Ben made quite clear at the meeting that Stonewall is engaged in a process of listening and consulting with active Stonewall supporters, of whom there are almost 20,000, about the future of civil partnership. This is an issue affecting the broad church of the LGBT community not just the 20,000 members of Stonewall. Are they not also listening to that wider community? Many of that wider community are outraged that Stonewall, a so-called 'leader' on LGBT rights, had so far not said anything on this issue.

UPDATE: There is comment on the updated PinkNews report which says:

Oh and as a Stonewall "supporter" who has contributed financially over the past decade, I have never been consulted about anything from this organisation. The most I have ever received are a) requests for donations b) publicity on events and initiatives c) asked to purchase tickets for gala etc but never once asked for an opinion.

So just has been consulted.

While some lesbian, gay and bisexual people fully support changing civil partnership into marriage Stonewall above commented on PinkNews not checking facts!!! Oops. The motion (now policy) is not a single option for marriage, there is the choice of CPs or Marriage open to ALL., there are others – including particularly some women – who do not want something that is either the same as or synonymous with marriage. Again using a feminist argument to deny others something they want doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It they don't want anything synonymous with marriage they they don't have to same as with anyone else. This is a sensitive area of policy development and not one which is assisted by inflammatory media coverage.

The Equalities Minister Lynne Featherstone, with whom we have discussed this issue privately, acknowledged in response to Ben's remarks last night that as Stonewall is a supporter-based organisation it could not be expected to issue a response to such an issue until it had built the sort of consensus Ben had outlined. This issue has been being discussed since the introduction of CPs in 2005. The Equal Marriage Campaign is something I have been a member of for over 2 years. The failure of Stonewall to have come to a consensus in that time scale, not the 4 days that PinkNews asked for a mere 400 words, is scandalous.

Ben did not say for one moment that Stonewall objected to the motion that would be debated today because it would cost £5bn. Ah that's all right then. But see what Zoe said in that second post.

Ben pointed out, factually, that there was a cost to including provision of civil partnerships for opposite-sex couples in the motion. He suggested that ministers should publish the Treasury Impact Assessment that will have been carried out. Well if cost is going to be a hindrance bringing equality, we should not have brought in Civil Partnerships for gays and lesbians. We shouldn't have brought in minimum wage or equal pay. At a time when companies are downsizing we shouldn't have brought in the law to prevent employees being fired because they are gay. We also shouldn't have extended the franchise to women, or Roman Catholics or Jews either. GET REAL!!! When has cost ever, or should it ever be an excuse against equality.

This is a policy on which Stonewall expressed and expresses no view (campaigning to end heterosexual disadvantage is not one of its charitable objectives it may not be one of the objectives per se of Stonewall but why are they seeking just to support gays not achieve equality. If LGBT groups aren't standing up for equality who can?, and Ben said that) however, with an estimated cost of £5bn over 10 years, people have understandably raised the question of whether it is likely in the current economic environment that such a policy would be implemented in the lifetime of this parliament. Hang on above you said this wasn't a reason Ben had for objecting yet you appear to say he was doing so here.

Stonewall is determined, as Ben made crystal clear at the meeting, to build – as it has always strived to do on any issue - a policy and campaigning position on the future of civil partnership that has the support of the widest possible number of lesbian, gay and bisexual people in Britain. Yet you seem to be arguing for the small number of women having the right to deter it for others, how bizarre.

For PinkNews to publish and fail to correct a story in this way sadly brings the whole of the pink media, which serves our minority communities uniquely well, into disrepute. I have seen and heard numerous comments from friends who were there, I would have been myself if I'd been able to get to conference. I have read this statement in full I do not think that PinkNews got it wrong. I see no reason for them to correct their story as Stonewall have not denied any of the comments were made and indeed seem to try and defend a number of them here.

Update: The original PinkNews article was update and now contains the following disclaimer:

"Comments made during the 21st September have been suspended at the request of Stonewall. It is possible to post comments though on this amended version of the article.

PinkNews.co.uk is happy to publish the clarifications above and apologises for any confusion caused by the original report."

So Stonewall are trying to censor freedom of expression.

Stonewall Says No

If I'd been at the Liberal Democrat conference today this evening I would have been at Delga (LGBT Lib Dems) diversity fringe event. This would have been before heading to the General Election candidate's reception later.

However, reading what I have just read suspect that I would have been sat in a corner writing what I now am. Thanks to Zoe O'Connell whose blog brought my attention first to what went on earlier.

Twas the night before Equal Marriage was debated in the hall,
And Stonewall weren't stirring they were scared as a mouse.

Well that is what we all thought they refused to respond to Pink News asking them a simple question on their stance on gay marriage. Stonewall weren't being singled out, but as one of the LGBT community's larger group their silence when 9 other groups did was noted.

Well Ben Summerskill tonight broke that silence. But here are some of the bizarre reasons that he gave. My comments in red.

• Giving Civil Partnerships to heterosexual couples would be too expensive £5bn over 10 years. Since when has cost been a reason to stop equality and correct wrongs.
• That the feminist movement are fundamentally opposed to marriage. Just because one group is opposed to something while others want it is no reason to stop it being taken up by others.
• Finally while people are being murdered in homophobic attacks we should he fighting that, focusing on that and not other things. While there is a difference in term for relationship surely that merely sparks the discriminators that there is something different, or 'wrong' in same sex unions.

I'm surprised he didn't use the argument that same same sex unions will ultimately fail. But I would say to that of course they will fail, not every heterosexual relationship lasts until the grave. Yes gay and lesbian couples will have arguments, they will fight, some of the those unions marriages or partnership will end in divorce (some of course already have).

But we need to give them the opportunity to fail so that we can rejoice with those that succeed. Those who in 20 years time celebrate their silver anniversary. Hopefully some having updating their CP into marriage as part of tomorrow's motion enables.

I look forward to the day that young gay men or women dream of their wedding in the same light as heterosexuals do. Look forward being it a ting that brings family and community together and isn't seen as odd or lout of whack, but a natural progression. Maybe when the relationships are normalised the homophobia will die down, maybe not entirely but to a greater extend.

A Solid Stonewall of Silence Over Equal Marriage #Stonewallfail

Next month's Lib Dem conference and Delga's motion on Equal Marriage* has got most LGBT organisations talking about this issue. Indeed we know they are because PinkNews asked the leading ones to respond in 400 words.



They got responses from LGBT Labour, LGBTory, Delga, OutRage!, the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, the Lesbian and Gay Foundation and from Scotland the Equality Network and the LGBT Network. There is one noticeable exception that is living up to its name once again in the wrong way STONEWALL.



A Stonewall may to must people's mind be an immovable object, a barrier or a definition of boundaries. However, the context in which Stonewall came by its name is the exact opposite. The Stonewall riots were a time for the LGBT community to stand up against the call for them to conform to what 'society' at the time deemed they should be. Denying themselves, denying that gay people had equal rights, even denying that they were normal.



The silence from Stonewall is stifling.



To be fair the other two political groups seem to be somewhat confused about equal marriage. LGBTory supports the call for Civil Partnership to be carried out in a Religious setting, however a Civil Partnership like a Civil Wedding is not allowed to contain any religious content. Of course a subsequent meeting may be arrange accommodate David Cameron's fear of letting some religious groups desire to carry out same-sex marriage appear equal with what is currently available.



LGBT Labour only talk about civil marriage to be carried out for same-sex couple and totally avoids the issue of religion. Apart from that their stance is similar to the Lib Dems in that civil partnership should be available to mixed-sex couples and marriage available to all (just they don't seem to include all marriage in that only the civil version).



Now I know you shouldn't mix politics and religion, I am from Northern Ireland after all, but in this case politics has to undo a wrong by allowing an enabling. The religious communities who wish to carry out same-sex marriage are barred from doing so by existent legislation. It is time to undo the shackles for those that want to, but not to force those that don't to also comply.



* I'm looking forward to the Federal Party discussing and I trust passing something that I was an interested observer and adviser in helping Liberal Youth Scotland to get the Scottish party to pass their motion.

Dear Stonewall, Some People are Closeted Get Over It

I make no apologies for twisting Sonewall's 'Some People are Gay Get Over It' slogan especially in light of reading Ed Fordham's opinion piece on Lib Dem Voice the other day. Like Ed said:

"I was appalled by the decision of Stonewall’s Chief Executive Ben Summerskill to take the airwaves and print media to launch his own mini-campaign against David [Laws]."

Not everyone finds it easy to be out and proud as Summerskill seems to make it. It they did where are the gay footballers and apart from Gareth Thomas the gay rugby players at the top end of our sports. Similarly in other high profile professions, the media in certain quarters still take great delight in finding out that some film, pop, sport star or public figure is caught in a possibly compromising position with someone of the same sex. Those same sectors absolutely revel in it if that same person comes out, and if there is tragedy like in the case of Stephen Gately they can even blame it all on sexuality.

It's not easy.

Indeed Stonewall seem to have in the shape of Summerskill become the arbiter of family circumstances as far as coming out is concerned. They seem to be saying that they and only they know when you should be out. I thought that was a person decision for every one of us, don't we decide how out and open we are with each individual we know?

I am not a number! I am me!

Of course none of us in the UK have it as hard as Steven Monjeza and Tiwonge Chimbalanga had it in Malawi. Therefore the news that Monjeza has either due to the governmental pressure, family pressure or whatever has found himself a female lover and is renouncing his previous love for and engagement to Chimbalanga is sad.

But Chimbalanga is the sort of person who does not need the support of groups like Stonewall, he's said:

"But I am not worried. You cannot force love, and nobody forced him when we did our symbolic wedding in December.

"I will also marry because there are lots of good men around. I will remain a gay."

It is people who like Monjeza feel the pressure to conform to a so-called 'norm' that need the support not the derision that Summerskill is heaping upon people like David Laws. For whatever reason, wherever in the world they are some people are quiet about their homosexuality. I guess it is a fact of gay life.

So Stonewall some people are closeted, get over it.

Stonewall Hero a Humble Man of God

I'm quite sure that Scott Rennie the minister of Queen's Cross Church in Aberdeen wouldn't consider himself a hero, he is far too humble a man to do that. In fact I have very little doubt that he would merely consider this year merely one of trying to do the job he wants to do and fulfil the calling that he has.

However, at the Stonewall awards last night Scott won the hero of the year award. You may well recall how early this year his calling to his present charge caused some controversy at the General Assembly, Westboro Baptist Church members were even threatening to turn up to protest outside the meeting to decide his future. Liberal Youth Scotland arranged a counter demo to show support for Scott which has the the bigger attendance despite less notice. But Scott was no doubt most happy with finally being allowed to take up his new post and get on with looking after his flock.

Lib Dem MP Lynne Featherstone didn't win the Parliamentarian of the year award for her work but I know her work on things like the Equality Bill and lifting the blanket blood ban will not cease. It's not about awards for either of them but getting on with work. Lynne did however lose out to Ben Bradshow the first openly gay cabinet minister.

There was also the award that nobody wants to win the bigot of the year award shared between two people. Father John Owen who has said on BBC's The Big Question that the majority of child abuse was carried out by gay men. The other recipient was Jan Moir for her ill timed, ill aimed, ill informed and vindictive piece not just on Stephen Gately but gay men and the lifestyle in general. A rather late comer to the voting as it was already under way when she wrote her poisoned pen piece.

Other awards went to:

Broadcast of the Year - Corrective Rape in South Africa

Entertainer of the Year - Boyzone (accepted by Stephen Gately's husband Andrew Cowles who said thanks for all the support in recent weeks)

Journalist of the year - Johann Hari and Joan Bakewell

Publication of the Year - g3

Writer of the Year - Sarah Waters

Community Group of the Year - Allsorts youth project